tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6078153782188855384.comments2011-12-11T17:38:51.228-08:00Isaachttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08458633225905474513noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6078153782188855384.post-58543154744641287882010-02-06T23:17:52.205-08:002010-02-06T23:17:52.205-08:00[B]NZBsRus.com[/B]<br />Skip Laggin Downloads Using NZB Downloads You Can Quickly Search Movies, Games, MP3 Singles, Applications &amp; Download Them at Flying Rates<br /><br />[URL=http://www.nzbsrus.com][B]Newsgroup[/B][/URL]Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6078153782188855384.post-6024597749177240732009-06-10T13:30:20.308-07:002009-06-10T13:30:20.308-07:00Dan Rice,<br /><br />I hope it was clear that my view (while it may include Christus Victor) is penal substitutionary atonement.<br /><br />Blessings on you!<br /><br />IsaacIsaachttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08458633225905474513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6078153782188855384.post-58223195761061317432009-06-08T21:24:40.524-07:002009-06-08T21:24:40.524-07:00Well, I think I am wading into deep, deep waters &amp; will soon find myself way over my head :/<br /><br />But I love being a part of the ongoing conversation.<br /><br />For starters, the wonder &amp; power &amp; significance of the atoning work of Jesus is a bit more than this puny brain can completely grasp. How wide, how high, how deep is the Father&#39;s love that He should send His son for me... I&#39;ll spend my life trying to understand all the nuances of meaning! However, I get to embrace it, enjoy it, be grateful for it, &amp; offer the same saving grace to others every day of my life!<br /><br />I, as you know, tend to think not so much in terms of either/or, but in terms of both/and. I think the language of substitutiary atonement is CLEARLY present in the Bible. But I also see the languate of Christ being our victor, our ransom, our example, our sacrifice all there as well. It&#39;s like we are seeing different facets of the same incredibly beautiful jewel - none of them complete in themselves.<br /><br />I think what I find the most troublesome is the exclusivity - that people (Christians!) need to fight over the rightness of one postion to the exclusion of all others. <br /><br />The gospel is rich in language, symbolism, nuance &amp; meaning so that the fulness of the atonement can be grasped by every culture in every place in every time. <br /><br />One facet might be the key that unlocks the mystery to someone - while another facet might be the key for someone else - &amp; then as they each grow in understanding of this incredibly gift of love &amp; grace, this incredible sacrifice Jesus made for our sin, their udnerstanding will grow to include other facets.<br /><br />I guess that&#39;s the weakness I see in your friend&#39;s arguments - not that Christ as victor is not a real part of the atonement, but that an entire theology has been built up around it to the exclusion of all others &amp; with the need to be divisive by rejecting all other&#39;s views (&amp; thus all those who hold it)<br /><br />Now, after that really long &amp; convoluted sentence... you know me well enough to know I would never embrace views of the atonement that are anithetical to scripture - and we all know they&#39;re out there.<br /><br />Guess that&#39;s enough rambling for now... I love Jesus &amp; I love the completeness of His redemption, the fulness of His truth, &amp; the depths of His love.fellow travellerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13069549801233872214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6078153782188855384.post-25326502798582535232009-06-08T18:40:24.822-07:002009-06-08T18:40:24.822-07:00God&#39;s stored up wrath will be poured out on sinners - not their sin. Yikes! That makes the Christus Victor approach - which is a nice thought but unconvincing in the light of ALL scripture - collapse like a house of cards, Isaac.<br /><br />blessings.<br /><br />danAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6078153782188855384.post-3506519142294989542009-06-08T08:22:20.120-07:002009-06-08T08:22:20.120-07:00DonnyTop--Interesting perspective. I am going to think about that for a while. I too want to be a follower of the way--which is more dynamic and less static...the question changes from &quot;When did you become a Christian?&quot; to &quot;Are you following the Way?&quot;Isaachttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08458633225905474513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6078153782188855384.post-14184093790945365832009-06-07T22:40:43.637-07:002009-06-07T22:40:43.637-07:00I was listening to a Matt Chandler sermon the other week and he was saying that Luke in Acts preferred the term follower of &quot;The Way&quot; to &quot;Christian&quot;. He only uses the term Christian once in the book, and never again. Matt wasn&#39;t being dogmatic about it or stating that there is anything wrong with the term Christian, its just that The Way has a more active undertone while the term Christian may seem alittle...assuming?DonnyTop5http://www.blogger.com/profile/09018958066942399074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6078153782188855384.post-7328735089388759312009-06-06T10:40:47.826-07:002009-06-06T10:40:47.826-07:00The great paradox between faith and works isn&#39;t an easy one to navigate, is it? I think Horton&#39;s exhortation is to Christian leaders, not to Christians (in general). His main point is that the gospel needs to be central to our message--not the entry point to a moralism. <br /><br />Horton gives the example of Wilberforce, who was encouraged NOT to be a pastor, so that he could continue his Good Works outside the walls of the church. Thank God he did.<br /><br />The gospel is so revolutionary and efficacious as to render amazing works within our lives. The preaching of the gospel, therefore, needs to remain focused on the Gospel. We have softened and shortened the Gospel and replaced it with socio-political-moralistic rhetoric.<br /><br />The Father&#39;s business (as revealed through scripture) is the administration of justice on His Son, thereby redeeming his people to be his own, and catapulting the Good News forward into the world. His Grace saves us and changes us.<br /><br />Great Christians will always make great change in the world (and should), but the mission of the church is to promote, preach and provide Christ. That is the distinctive--in an effort to &quot;change the world&quot; ministers have added to the gospel or neglected the primacy of the gospel.<br /><br />Thanks for the dialogue...looking forward to hearing you teach tonight...Isaachttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08458633225905474513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6078153782188855384.post-14806115622370249782009-06-06T09:10:29.448-07:002009-06-06T09:10:29.448-07:00Hi Isaac - I love that you are wrestling with tough questions, &amp; this book cerainly raises alot of issues worth looking into. Adapting to our culture at the expense of truth is a mistake we cannot afford to make. <br /><br />Without reading the book it&#39;s hard to know what the context of all the quotes are, but some of them seem a bit extreme...<br /><br />He is absolutely right that we cannot come to Christ through any efforts of our own - it is ALL through His mercy &amp; grace - lest any of us should boast...<br /><br />However, the Scriptures also command us repeatedly to go, to come, to do, to be disciples, to be His reflection in a broken world - these are RESPONSES - these are ACTIONS - faith without works is dead.<br /><br />Perhaps a key is the motivation behind our &quot;works&quot; and the source of the strength that enable us to do those good works. If we do them to EARN anything, we are doomed. If we do them on our own strength we are likewise doomed. But if we do them in response to the grace that has been extended to us, &amp; by His power working within us, then it seems to me we are embodying the Good News &amp; extending it to others.<br /><br />Christians throughout the ages have been involved in changing the political &amp; moral landscape (William Wilberforce, or Abraham Lincoln), the social landscape (Mother Teresa), they&#39;ve built hospitals &amp; dug wells &amp; started educational systems. We are called to be about the Father&#39;s business. <br /><br />So on that issue I guess I have questions. Of course we need to reject the feel-good, narcisistic positivism of our culture. Yes, we need to be less busy. Yes, we have neglected the teaching of doctrine &amp; the Bible. But I can&#39;t read my Bible &amp; escape all of the calls to DO as well as to BE. We have a part to play in responding to His love &amp; saving power in our lives.<br /><br />Guess after you hear my teaching tonight you might understand a little better some of what I&#39;m meaning... I&#39;ll look forward to your feedback.<br /><br />Tamifellow travellerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13069549801233872214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6078153782188855384.post-32781029359498969172009-06-06T00:41:25.650-07:002009-06-06T00:41:25.650-07:00&quot;Love one another&quot;<br /><br />That is the strongest and most direct advice that Jesus gave us. <br /><br />What does this mean? Does it mean that we need to &#39;do&#39; something to or for someone? Does it mean we need minister to them or bake them cookies? Does this mean we need to think about them and say nice things about them?<br /><br />Well... not really. To love someone is something more mature than any physical or mental state or action. It&#39;s something that once you start to really practice it... all the other things simply begin to happen. This includes giving a good sermon or baking cookies. The thing is... there will always be more cookies... better ones and worse ones. Cookies will also be forgotten. The same is true for sermons or any &#39;works&#39; that is done. The thing that is &#39;not&#39; forgotten is the love. That lingering reality that you connected with someone not because you had to or even wanted to... but because you loved them... really loved them. Love is not action or words... love is love.<br /><br />As far as what I think of American Christianity... I don&#39;t really know... nor does it really matter. The truth is that I can &#39;love&#39; anywhere and anytime. That is the basic fundamental truth that is laying underneath layers and layers of robes and cookie dough.sonicfreefallhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11559489172254966761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6078153782188855384.post-54783654250116997012009-06-05T18:36:45.250-07:002009-06-05T18:36:45.250-07:00American Christianity has been turned on its head several times and &quot;...tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming&quot; since the 80s. we go for the latest thing because what we have is not satisfying. Most of it can be dumped straight in the toilet without offending God in the slightest. And unless we get to the balanced, disciplined life and church life that God&#39;s word says we should strive for we won&#39;t know the power and peace we need to bring the Gospel to the needy.<br />Blessings to you, Isaac, for being a thinker and trying to think Christianly!<br />dan riceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6078153782188855384.post-60932807974518249472008-11-10T20:55:00.000-08:002008-11-10T20:55:00.000-08:00Keep up the good work.Paulahttp://parkerinsurance.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6078153782188855384.post-36091887564466927012008-11-08T12:26:00.000-08:002008-11-08T12:26:00.000-08:00Dear Isaac,<BR/><BR/>About your thoughts...Amen! Our God reigns, America as well as the Netherlands! He will do as He has purposed!!<BR/><BR/>God bless you!<BR/><BR/>Greetings,<BR/><BR/>MichielAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6078153782188855384.post-88087517989701433732008-09-27T08:21:00.000-07:002008-09-27T08:21:00.000-07:00Thank you Michiel...<BR/><BR/>I appreciate your willingness to encourage me - to express what it is you think and feel.<BR/><BR/>I continue to pray for all of you - may the Lord bless each of you and help you to find Him in all you do.<BR/><BR/>Greetings to all...Isaachttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08458633225905474513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6078153782188855384.post-73201869934981150242008-09-27T02:29:00.000-07:002008-09-27T02:29:00.000-07:00Dear Isaac,<BR/><BR/>Just this Saturday morning we had a great family time, talking about important things in life. And it is just great to hear Joshua talk and see his heart and ways. Truly he has grown this past year and again I thought, you guys have contributed to that too this year. So rejoice with us! You are doing a good thing. I pray that God will give you everything you need for the challenges that are ahead of you. And shurely, with the calling/challenge He will provide everthing you need (1 Cor 10:13). Greetings!Michiel de Jongnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6078153782188855384.post-35736770214619167912008-07-30T12:22:00.000-07:002008-07-30T12:22:00.000-07:00Dear Isaac,<BR/><BR/>Josh has made it home! We are blessed to have him back and he has started to tell us about all the great things he has done and he has learned.<BR/><BR/>God bless you!<BR/><BR/>MichielMichiel de Jongnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6078153782188855384.post-20930759661753798872008-07-26T14:57:00.000-07:002008-07-26T14:57:00.000-07:00Michiel,<BR/><BR/>It has been a great privilege to spend these last 6 months with Joshua. We have been so blessed!<BR/><BR/>We will miss him dearly, but look forward to when we see each other again - perhaps this time in The Netherlands.<BR/><BR/>Thank you for taking the time to write.<BR/><BR/>Blessings!<BR/><BR/>IsaacIsaachttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08458633225905474513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6078153782188855384.post-48576514068046081742008-07-26T14:52:00.000-07:002008-07-26T14:52:00.000-07:00Dear Isaac,<BR/><BR/>I tried to post this yesterday, but I must have done something wrong.... Anyhow, one more time: A BIG THANK YOU for how you have been helping Joshua to expand and to grow!<BR/><BR/>Greetings,<BR/><BR/>Michiel, Amsterdam, The NetherlandsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6078153782188855384.post-78979363843806992662008-03-28T14:54:00.000-07:002008-03-28T14:54:00.000-07:00Isaac,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for putting your thoughts and experiences down on electronic paper again. It has been great reading it!!<BR/><BR/>Greetings and have a save journey, we'll certainly will pray for that!<BR/><BR/>Greetings,<BR/><BR/>MichielAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6078153782188855384.post-45116912652962100282008-03-26T11:48:00.000-07:002008-03-26T11:48:00.000-07:00Great Stuff Isaac! Good to read about that ministry and of course a bit prouder, knowing my son attacked a pavement!!<BR/><BR/>Greetings,<BR/><BR/>Michiel<BR/><BR/>Does anyone read these my little precious comments? Or are they like my only song that I ever wrote. After I played it for the Lord, I forgot how the song went and that was it.......Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6078153782188855384.post-6194161792239018942008-03-24T00:52:00.000-07:002008-03-24T00:52:00.000-07:00Hi,<BR/>Great to be able to keep track of Joshua two ways!! Haha, just kidding; but it's great to be able to follow you guys this way. We'll be praying for you!!<BR/><BR/>JDJD (Joshua's dad)noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6078153782188855384.post-64197257428463507532008-03-22T17:07:00.000-07:002008-03-22T17:07:00.000-07:00Wow, I am so glad to read this! Yes, I am the mom of one of the late teenage girls. I am praying she will rise up and be strengthened and hear God's call and direction for her on this mission trip! I am praying for you all and am so thankful for your leadership with our teens!! Go LA Mission Trip!!!shanvanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04744612256912405172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6078153782188855384.post-367829224493586152007-11-06T06:52:00.000-08:002007-11-06T06:52:00.000-08:00Ducks won 35-23Isaachttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08458633225905474513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6078153782188855384.post-60855757426756539712007-11-05T14:12:00.001-08:002007-11-05T14:12:00.001-08:00btw that was me, Joshua from Amsterdam ;)Joshhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11011449296137477817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6078153782188855384.post-56631911691449016162007-11-05T14:12:00.000-08:002007-11-05T14:12:00.000-08:00It is looking good! What was the score eventually?Joshhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11011449296137477817noreply@blogger.com